agree 100% Tayls. I quite like watching Garton field just to see the Trebuchet he is packing for a throwing arm.

along with another chance to see Taz Ali, being able to see Kai for hopefully more extended periods is what I am most looking forward to in the ODC which I feel like it can't come soon enough now

Tayls79 wrote:
Re our chat on Garton on the 2XI feed yesterday, might we worth subbing him in for Barnard on Sunday and see if he can open and maybe bowl a few overs with a view to the Metro Bank.

yeah I'd think about this too albeit as EB is captain i think unlikely. on his poor batting form in isolation he'd very much be a candidate to be dropped. there's not the same groundswell of calls for that on here compared to how it is with some other players, curious, is that.

Andy wrote:

Last home game.

Somerset win at Derby last night extinguished our already extremely faint hopes of progressing id say.

with that in mind I'd be trying to 'build for the future' as the football cliche goes

I'd bring Taz Ali in. I say that now without thinking how to fit him in but sod it, in for a penny, we need to blood him more.

And i'd bat Kai further up the order, he has really suffered from the consistent-ish form of the top 5 and had little time at the crease recently. Assuming he plays in the ODC I would be batting him no later than 4 in that competition, too, i think he has a future as a white ball batsman and we need to invest some more time in him.

paulbear wrote:

Of course our 'Mystery Bowler' Mr Tariq was immense but no real effort was tried to score off him. Just goes to show I think, that we have missed the 3 spinners we had when we strangled sides after the 'Powerplay'.

absolutely
we were spoiled for i think 3 years by having Maxwell and then Moeen as batsmen in the top 5 who would tend to bowl a full 4 overs of quality spin (and maybe Mousley too, and then the front line lads in Lintott and Briggs).

I still miss the middle-overs Stranglers we had when Tahir, Piolet and Botha played together for that one season

looking back its a measure of how brilliant Jeetan was, that he managed to carry us on his back as basically our only spinner with only occasional darts from Javid to back him up (and OHD bowling slower bouncers in the middle overs)

I'd love to have seen Taz much more this year but, picking him would mean him, Gleeson and Tariq as non-batters and the number 11s start at number 9, and either (a) only one place for the seaming all-rounder for Woakes/JT or (b) play both of the above but drop Kai Smith into top 6 and at whose expense?

the obvious answer is staring us all in the face of course as I and andy have said it's Webster bowling spin as it means not messing round with the lineup at all

Mikkyk wrote:

They did have a warm exchange at the end of his spell though tbf

Cheers, I'm probably over reacting then

Tayls79 wrote:

Ha. I thought the de Lange / Mousley exchange was good honest stuff TBH. dL was first to clap when Mouse responded.

Overall, good to watch. A rarity to see a whole game for me. Both the batting and bowling is complementary so hard to work out quite why they started out so poorly. It's a better balanced team than in the CC with a credible spinner and solid roles from all the bats right the way down.

The only two things I would say is it could do with another pace-off bowler and I don't think that's Mousley, at least right now. That leads me to other point is there are micro periods of slopiness I've see over the games. Mousley bowling that fourth was probably one moment, few things behind the stumps (we know this), few throws at the stumps wayward and Tariq coming out to bat without his kit. The more these are eliminated the better we are.

Fair enough, I thought it was applause of the sarcastic variety tbh

Andy wrote:

Dan's great when he gets in that mode, can't bowl at him.

Nice to see him give Marchant de Wanka some treatment. The bloke is the epitome of the obnoxious dick head fast bowler. Makes Overton look like a thoroughly decent chap, what a great big glowering hulking muscle Mary he is.

Tariq is an absolute rascal, haven't had this much fun watching a spinner since Imran Tahir, he's just as unplayable. One of the balls which passed the left handers edge I swear he beat him with every element you could think of, drift, flight, length, spin.

Webster on track to have the best season by a bears batsman in t20. Considering his career SR he's batting out of his skin. In t20 I like his offspin more than his seam bowing I'd like to see more of it

Malik is really working in that aggressive role up top.

Andy wrote:

On the whistle thoughts,

Tariq brilliant, I don't know what he does but he does something.

I'm not remotely sure in terms of how he does it but the combination of the pause,, different release points, the flight he gets when he tosses it up, and the ability to turn it either way, all 4 of them together really combine to make batsmen hesitate to play their shots.

From what I have seen the flight and dip alone would make it difficult to play if he gets it right so the 4 together make him nearly unplayable when he does.

I think he's far better when he uses the lower arm less often, he gets much more dip (though he seems to get a surprising amount even with a low arm) the higher his arm is

Reabank wrote:

Agreed, our batting seems to lack a bit of balance with the career strike rates of Webster, Hain and Mousley being 125,134 and 132 so all around 8 runs an over (why are batting run rates per 100 balls and bowling run rates per 6 balls?). Maybe it's OK having them 3,4 and 5 if the bowling is very strong and you think 160 - 190 will generally be enough runs, but we aren't quite as strong with the ball as we've been in recent seasons. It might help if Hain and Mousley were dropped down the order when Webster bats for a long time.

I was very concerned about Websters SR, but he has significantly bettered his career rate for us and even got off to pretty good starts in 2 of his longer innings. Mousley increased his SR quite significantly last year and I believe carried on in similar vein this year. My concern with Hain and Webster particularly is them going a run a ball for a few overs against effective spin bowling.

I think youre right about their chemistry when paired up together (thinking Hain/Webster in particular), and especially against
sustained overs of spin either of them could maybe benefit from batting with a busy player like Kai Smith, so again, I agree maybe shifting the order may be a good idea in some instances

Given his weight of runs so far it feels like Webster should be the main cog everything else revolves around, and he'd definitely benefit from someone taking the weight off him in the middle overs

Yates still doing a sterling job of getting the early strike rate up. He's benefitted from some poorish bowling, but fair play for capitalising

GerryShedd wrote:

ITE7376 wrote:

GerryShedd wrote:

paulbear wrote:

Never rated Mills, there are plenty of bowlers who are in the 8.50 per over bracket, he's just a name that got thrown about like Chris Jordan but they have not really won trophies with all the different franchise side they played for, Jordan was the reason England lost that T20 semi-final in about 2021 v New Zealand with a terrible last over and he definitely cost Sussex the T20 final when Worcestershire won it by spraying it everywhere in the 'Death' overs. Hard Hitters, Clive Lloyd was a real blaster, his 2 innings in the 1972 Gillette Cup Final (Damn Him) and the 1975 World Cup Final were full of shots where the ball hit the ropes before the bowler had finished following-through.

Agree about Clive Lloyd and those two innings - especially how he hit David Brown back to the pavilion fence in the 1972 innings. When he hit the ball into the crowd at mid-wicket in the 1975 match, John Arlott said it was effortless, "the stroke of a man knocking a thistle top off with a walking stick."

---

apparently Arlott pinched that phrase from a cricket book of the 1920s or something

I often wondered whether Arlott's 'bon mots' were spontaneous or rehearsed; but I've never read or heard that they may have been "borrowed" - though it could well be so.

I heard it on a TMS lunchtime chat, albeit, do please bear in mind I'm pretty sure it was the loathsome Norcross who said it and I'd normally rather swallow my own leg than listen to or take note of a word he says, anyway whoever did say it, cited the book itself, publication date and all.

GerryShedd wrote:

paulbear wrote:

Never rated Mills, there are plenty of bowlers who are in the 8.50 per over bracket, he's just a name that got thrown about like Chris Jordan but they have not really won trophies with all the different franchise side they played for, Jordan was the reason England lost that T20 semi-final in about 2021 v New Zealand with a terrible last over and he definitely cost Sussex the T20 final when Worcestershire won it by spraying it everywhere in the 'Death' overs. Hard Hitters, Clive Lloyd was a real blaster, his 2 innings in the 1972 Gillette Cup Final (Damn Him) and the 1975 World Cup Final were full of shots where the ball hit the ropes before the bowler had finished following-through.

Agree about Clive Lloyd and those two innings - especially how he hit David Brown back to the pavilion fence in the 1972 innings. When he hit the ball into the crowd at mid-wicket in the 1975 match, John Arlott said it was effortless, "the stroke of a man knocking a thistle top off with a walking stick."

apparently Arlott pinched that phrase from a cricket book of the 1920s or something

paulbear wrote:

Never rated Mills, there are plenty of bowlers who are in the 8.50 per over bracket,

there aren't many with a T20 strike rate of 15.3 (English domestic), to be fair. thats 2 better than Danny Briggs, for example.

Mikkyk wrote:
Mills is still a good death operator though.
.

great call that was an outstanding last couple of overs from him

Mikkyk wrote:

I used to think Hose hit it hard but Webster is another level. Anything from square to cover on the offside is like a tracer bullet when he connects.

it made me start thinking of the hardest strikers of the ball I have seen

i couldn't really think of too many offhand that hit it as hard as Beau does- for some reason good old Mark Cosgrove came to mind but he was more a McCullum type with savage bat speed as I recall it. definitely one of the hardest strikers i have seen though.

With Beau it 'just' seems to be long levers + timing and yeah Hose i guess is similar in that sense. Beau just seems effortless with it and the ball looks like its travelling with the weight of a friggin football.

Andy wrote:
. Webster's ability to play powerfully through the covers off the back foot is amazing to see. Hits 4's through there even with a man on the boundary.

indeed, i don't think I've ever seen anyone hit those shots harder, the ball just has this freakish weight behind it

Pleased Thompson is being used properly now, he hit his yorkers almost at will. Making a mockery of these claims that he's not a good t20 bowler.

yup, don't bowl him in the PP and he will shine as he can just keep it simple and look to nail his most comfortable length

cjav1874 wrote:

It’s a shame we took just too long to click because now that we have we look capable of beating anyone. Thompson and Gleeson’s yorker bowling has been exemplary.

when we no longer use him in the power play Thompson has and will come into his own. like you say the yorker plan works really well for him, I think because it keeps it simple and is basically exactly what he's always done when he bowls at the death

Coop wrote:

Yes agree with your assessment of Ben Stokes and his career ....... but the fact that he opened, (it's not all about him , even today) and what has happened subsequently, in my opinion shows a total disregard for English Test cricket .... yes, I am a bit of a traditionalist, but I think this just shows what 'we' currently think of Test cricket in this country. (I'll take it all back, if we win)

Agree 100%. The manner of his exit smacked of attention seeking and self indulgence.

ITE7376 wrote:

Andy wrote:

Yes, got us out of utter strife too, barely raised a mention on here.

That was coming in at 4. Best position for him in Ltd overs IMO. He and Kai Smith batted well together that day and made/make a natural partnership. Busy at the crease and running well between the wickets, kept it ticking over and got their boundaries as bonuses, never let a world class leggie settle never mind pin them down, their styles and attributes complemented perfectly. I don't think we think or teams think enough about that sort of thing FWIW, how partnerships do (or don't) gell together. I remember Yousuf and Bell putting on 100 in a 40 over game once. Looked like they were born to bat together.

Andy wrote:

Yes, got us out of utter strife too, barely raised a mention on here.

That was coming in at 4. Best position for him in Ltd overs IMO. He and Kai Smith batted well together that day and made/make a natural partnership. Busy at the crease and running well between the wickets, kept it ticking over and got their boundaries as bonuses, never let a world class leggie settle never mind pin them down, their styles and attributes complemented perfectly. I don't think we think or teams think enough about that sort of thing FWIW, how partnerships do (or don't) gell together.