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Bald_Reynard wrote:

Andy wrote:

Performances like this are more frustrating than Friday in my opinion. Friday was a complete one off which you know just won't happen again. Today though, you play reasonably well but end up not landing a glove on the opposition. Batted well but despite that you did suspect we were still 10 or 15 short.

Bowling wise, I dont want to point to fingers but I do think Barnard just randomly rotates his bowlers and just hopes a wicket comes. I say this because I used to think it in the one day cup too, just letting it drift after the PP. Likewise with the field settings, there was numerous times in the ODC when someone like Lintott would step in and set the fields. Not a knock on the lad, just like to see a bit more conviction and 'up and at em' so to speak from him. If you dont keep taking wickets regularly in white ball cricket you lose, no matter whether you're trying to defend or contain etc

Come on Barney, get a handle on it, son.

James Rew, how do you bowl at him? Looks unreal. The bowling looks about 5mph slower when he's facing. Still feel like the short ball sorts him out and the highest level though.

I still think we can turn it round, no better place to start than New Road...

Jake L - 4 overs, 2 for 25, in his first game for Kent. I think we're going to miss him!

Im not so sure to be honest, he went around the park a bit for us the past couple of years. Happy to give Taz a go with an eye on the future.

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paulbear wrote:

Do members need a ticket still, to get into the T20 game v Worcestershire in June.

Yes mate, reserved seating.

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Thank you Andy, I always struggle to find the ultimate link/prompt, etc that gets me the right place to get my ticket. I might just get them to print one off for me on Sunday when we are at home to Northamptonshire.

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The look of our batting lineup and their approach on sunday was wrong, to me.

you've got Webster and Hain coming in at 3/4 which means by law of averages the two of them are going to end up spending a lot of time playing spin in the middle overs. But Webster looks to be a poor player of spin in white ball cricket, too big and immobile just doesn't seem to have the footwork, doesn't use the sweep and on current evidence won't look to just smash through the line and bully spin/medium pace in the middle overs.

And as good as Hain is, the absolutely worst part of his batting is his inability/unwillingness to attack spinners, he's basically never really taken spinners to the cleaners, ever. I remember him hammering Matt Carter once at home, like. His career SR is 150, I bet its something like 125 vs spin and 165 vs seam.

If I think about truly great/destructive players against spin, they generally do at least one of, either use their feet to change the length of the delivery or access either side of the wicket (and short boundaries) better, or use the sweep/reverse sweep, or if all else fails just find a way to smash/muscle to ball somewhere over the leg side boundary, and the really good ones will do all 3 at some point. Hain basically does none of them and never has.

Hain has, and we have for years, spent far too long just allowing the spinners to bowl at us in the middle overs, just accept 6-8 an over and basically hope that Hain is left at the end to take the seamers down for 10-15 an over at the death. Goldsworthy is tidy but not a world beater and it wasn't till Ed came on and used his feet at him that anyone really tried to put him off his game, we just passively let him bowl at us. we almost always do this, and on what was clearly not a 190 par surface it was as responsible as anything for us losing the game

Hain's passivity against spin means he really needs someone like Mousley or Bethell (Or ed) with him to take those risks, both of whom were excellent foils for him as they'd do his attacking for him in the middle overs. But hain partnered with Webster I foresee a lot of excruciating passages of play during overs 6-14 tbh.

back to hobby horse if hain was opening he'd face mostly seam for the first 6 overs and have power play restrictions to get cheap boundaries and take some lower-risk attacking shots. and if Davies was batting at 4 he's much more pro-active against the spin and we'd be getting bogged down less. thank goodness Somerset only had 4 overs of spin to throw at us, it could have been really ugly if they'd had another spinner

Hain's tactic of playing pretty much risk-free for the majority of his innings and hoping to be around at the end, and then making up by scoring very quickly, places a huge onus on him taking advantage of nearly every single ball in the last 4. what if he doesn't manage to get the strike much? what if the bowlers simply bowl well? a lot of them have had success bowling the short/slow stuff at him at the death and daring him to try and muscle a six off a 65mph bouncer, which he can't/won't do- I mean its not like teams haven't had a while to work out tactics for his strengths and weaknesses over the last decade.

as with Trotty in white ball cricket, I have to wonder with Hain at what point his aversion to taking risks before the last 4 overs amounts to tactical error or even selfishness. that was a 200+ par wicket all day, you're going to struggle ever getting 200 if you just resign yourself to going at 6-8 in the middle overs, and judging by the number of attacking shots hain and Webster played, that seemed to be the tactic.

Ed got out because he was playing the situation unselfishly (and with more tactical awareness IMO) to play a shot a ball because at that point someone needed to , and he was kind of forced into that by Webster/hain's slow scoring.

To me that was an obvious 200+par pitch where we almost settled for 190, with middle order batsmen not taking enough risk when they have proven late order hitters behind them all the way to number 8. I know, fells like sacrilege to criticise Hain, but at least as many times as he has ambled to over number 16 with SR of 125 and then hammered the last 4 overs to get us to or near 200, he has also had loads of innings where he did just what he did on Sunday- marked time for a late over burst that never came, whilst putting pressure on his partners to take risks he wasn't taking. He has also had games where his late innings blitz did come off but the 200 he just about got us to, proved insufficient and the opposition showed he was batting on a 220 par pitch all along. betting on the last 4 overs giving you enough runs to make up for taking very few risks in over 7-15 is very risky against good batting teams on good pitches. 200 is not the totem it used to be.

I feel like there are different ways of taking on responsibility in cricket and in T20 sometimes taking risks is taking on the responsibility. It feels weird criticising our best and my favourite player but that innings had some real deja vu to it and not in a good way.

It could be that Hain is playing to orders, and Westwood's conservative style. when i think back to that season when Hain got a century against Notts away I think 2024, when his SR that season was i think 165, way better than his usual, he was conspicuously more attacking early in his innings, and we kept on getting 200 that year with him and Hose both attacking much more in the middle overs.

so i don't think it's inability on Hain's part and apparently when the team approach is more attacking he absolutely can do it, so can only assume he is playing a too-conservative role management have forced onto him.

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Averages after 2 T20 games

https://countycrickethub.net/team-averages.html?teamid=16&comp=3&year=2026

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I was agreeing with the comments made by ITE until I looked at the stats produced by Highveld. After two innings Hain has scored the most runs,,has the best average, the best highest score and 2nd highest strike rate. But it is a fact we have this slow spell in the middle of the innings something that Briggs and Lintott achieved when bowling in previous seasons.

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I imagine you meant Lintott not Flintoff? And yes we have missed their control in the middle overs.

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LeicesterExile wrote:

I was agreeing with the comments made by ITE until I looked at the stats produced by Highveld. After two innings Hain has scored the most runs,,has the best average, the best highest score and 2nd highest strike rate. But it is a fact we have this slow spell in the middle of the innings something that Briggs and Flintoff achieved when bowling in previous seasons.

yeah it seems counter-intuitive to say the least to criticise Hain haha and I was saying it more about the partnership of Webster and Hain yesterday than just Hain, but I will stand by:

(1) Hain and webster chewed up 65 balls between them, over hald the innings. total runs 93, strike rate 143. that translates to a score of 171 if all out batsmen did that 'well'. to chew up that many balls for SR143 on a pitch like that, is a match-losing contribution from the two of them

it would have been more obvious had Somerset batted first and set the 220 that pitch deserved and their innings showed they were more than capable of

if webster and Hain had those innings chasing 220 instead of setting a 190 that turned out to be putrid, the poor scoring rate would have been much more stark.

(2) Hain across his career has scored slowly in the middle overs, has never been a player who attacks and dominates spin. he needs to be playing with the right partner(s) and having Webster with him, glacial ponderous footwork and agonising patience and all, is like choosing the exact, polar opposite of a good partner for hain in the middle overs.

But it is a fact we have this slow spell in the middle of the innings something that Briggs and Flintoff achieved when bowling in previous seasons.
its something (middle over squeeze) we have generally done much better as a bowling unit than a batting unit over the years, yes. not sure wheer Flintoff's name came from haha but never mind i get your point

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I want to know who changed by post and put Freddie in there ha ha I'm sure I didn't type it so will just blame Google. I've corrected it now. Given your final sentence perhaps this is something most teams suffer from most of the time. Could it be the change from pace to spin after only 6 overs creates a problem in batsmen's minds?

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LeicesterExile wrote:

I want to know who changed by post and put Freddie in there ha ha I'm sure I didn't type it so will just blame Google. I've corrected it now. Given your final sentence perhaps this is something most teams suffer from most of the time. Could it be the change from pace to spin after only 6 overs creates a problem in batsmen's minds?


there's often a change of tempo after over 6, but I feel like the better batting teams don't drop off, or drop off much less. it definitely seems to me that the better batting teams refuse let the spin bowlers settle into a rhythm and do everything possible to throw them off, and will be scoring at a good clip throughout the 20 overs rather than relying on either power play or the death to really score big..

It doesn't make sense to let a whole 8 overs creep by and allow yourself to be dictated to in terms of scoring rate, that puts a huge amount of pressure on whoever is batting at the death. .

Late in Jeetan's career with us it seemed teams had a premeditated tactic of getting the sweep/especially reverse sweep out against him early and it definitely seemed to play a role in stopping him dictating to them.